so to me at least in p700 case its a software problem? Warranty can be a long drawn out affair costing trips to site to do measurements that clearly as an experienced installer and electrician shows the device has failed yet they want you to go thru hoops to try to discredit your findings. They probably don't want you to see the panel-level monitoring, because then they will have to fix the faulty optimisers. Too make make a long story short, I am getting a RECORD runaround from Solaredge. However, the industry does not entirely agree this problem needed to be solved. The tech's first response was to update the firmware ( as this is their first response to any inverter fault, does this mean their firm ware is easily corrupted?) Thank you! The SunnyBoy inverter we have today will send you an email alert in a major failure. I have designed equipment to operate in un inhabited -55C to 125C with extreme vibrations, sand dust humidity..also some experience in ham radio design (Swan Radios). However, when one optimizer fails you cannot see which one failed - a rather inconvenient problem with a roof mounted system! Do you recommend we ask our installer to do something different? Now I monitor weekly and, lo and behold, 2 more panels are croaking. I want to see whether the produces that exist here are the same ones! Hi Mark. Youll also be able to see how much energy your system is producing daily, how much you are using through self consumption. The installer sent me a photo of the first - and only, as it transpired - failed optimiser and the serial number is: SJ5117A-011285650-DF, part number: P370-5RM4MRM MM25 A. Curiosity wont kill the cat in this case. Over the last ten years, inverters became transformerless which made them heaps lighter and more efficient. It seems the combination of W and E in string 2 makes the panels work against each other. Inverters take the DC current that solar panels produce and invert it to AC current making the power usable in your home and on the grid. Does anybody have a solution? Reading it here in Holland. Has anyone considered a class action suite? From how much energy its using or producing to if there are any issues with a particular panel on your roof. Which one would be preferred? Dividing the $13,500 by $1,775.64 energy savings per annum gives us a payback period =7.6 years. They outsource their manufacturing to other companies in China (by Flextronics), Hungary and Romania. Your article doesn't make sense. What should I be asking them? Its been installed for 2 years 9 months. on original installation on inverter would not power upreplace with another one 3 weeks later. As to Enphase reliability - one thing we've discovered is that many "failures" are actually communications issues. Is that a new design or an older unit? Thanks Mark for your informative blog, I had a SolarEdge inverter installed and I discovered that mine failed, I was sold on this system and feel that these inverters are the weak link, hope I can get this resolved without legal action. In terms of Fronius and Sungrow and those types of inverters, SolarEdge is way better but of course requires a bigger investment. I think its a realy important question, because if in shaded scenario the optimizers everyday use the bypass diode - which I think sure they use - then an optimized system will also cause bypass diode failure and this can lead to problems. They do remote updates on the firmware with no notification, I have many inverters now with totaly different setups to what was installed, the -0.9 power factor has gone back to unity, the inverter size has been changed for example a 4kw inverter now has 5.2 showing on the display, others just have a mess of ascii letters. As a concept, SolarEdge is much better and gives you more detail. Their use of panel optimisers and smart monitoring technology means youll be maximising your energy output for years to come. I'm in the UK and am experiencing terrible service from Solar Edge. Yeh, I like Enphase and it had a great track record for reliability. I find that disappointing. The hotter and sunnier the weather has become since it was installed in June 2019, the more time it spends with the inverter not producing power. I was thinking of a Fronius to back it up, thanks in advance, Pam. Regardless, the system doesnt work as designed, and they cant show that it was working nor explain the high bills. Doesn't get any simpler. Hi Garry. Monitoring does NOT affect production. My Solar Source contract/paperwork states the Solar Source non-transferable warranty includes: 5 years full labor warranty, 10 years workmanship warranty and 10 years roof penetration warranty. Then she changed her mind or was told to. They said something about the fault occurring after heavy rains. Its leak-proof: you wont have to worry about electrolyte spillage. Learn more, 2022 Climatebiz All Rights Reserved Twitter YouTube Facebook, Master's degree in Electrical Engineering. For example you try to avoid the limitation and use P404 optimizers because its for short string and it has a bit bigger VOC. The original MLine product, now rebranded has not changed its spots. Not only is the product flawed/faulty but the technical people are arrogant and will avoid a customers call constantly. I dont agree. We are switching out the system and going to Enphase. We agree. Mark, great info on Solaredge and I completely agree with all of your points. Therefore, we can say that a solar system sized X multiplied by 140% (the extra 40% comes from the sun tracker) should be equivalent to a 5kW system. These failure rates will increase over time but to date: Keep in mind that replacing an optimiser (or microinverter) isnt as safe and easy as replacing a string inverter. $3000 Trueup cost to boot. Get the energy saved from each component of the sun tracking solar panel system. For a system that's designed in the Mediterranean, it seems odd that the inverters can't cope with warm weather. I am shocked by this - the whole thing seems more like a scam than a serious solar energy system. Has this changed since. I am hoping for some ideas on how to resolve what appears to be an optimizer failure on our roof mounted system. to discuss how you can start saving with solar. Interesting one. Most string inverters today are connected to the internet and allow you to check if production has dropped over time. My Solar company, United Solar went out of business and my solar panels haven't worked right since I had them installed. Then there is the attitude of SE themselves. The homeowner decided, lets pull the trigger, lets install a battery. The four northern panels boost the voltage to their maximum of 60 volts and 2.2 amps (132 watts). After six months, no results, and no production out of the system. E22 is normally what we suggest when roof space is limited, or money is not the problem. I return to 1 job. I believe the content is accurate (otherwise I wouldnt include it) and of significant interest to consumers and installers. I also have saved old .sesd files where the designer offers string solution WHICH IS NOT POSSIBLE BY THE DATASHEET: https://imgur.com/a/K2f0eK5 You cannot put 12 kW in one string only 11,25 kW, but the design tool offers it to you. Called installer, parts covered under warranty but labor for an hour was US $250 on 4/18/2020for an hours work. hi mark, wow! I stopped monitoring it last year and received a call from my FIT provider last month who told me the system had stopped generating. Sun trackers track the suns position throughout the day. Last week I was told that a replacement inverter had been sent, including a tracking number for my installer. ? We get best service here from CARLOS and his team. My system is four years old and until now has worked fine. If you are considering moving and are looking for a fast ROI system, youd be better suited with something like Sungrows residential inverter with Longi HiMO4 solar panels. Did they need to be? Adjacent is one of the worst examples. Wish I knew about this blocking effect you have coined before installation as I would have insisted on an alternative design (both panel layout and optimiser model) and potentially avoided SolarEdge products altogether. I was doing some research before I would accept or reject the quote. This is much better than an internet warrior smashing the keys. Those seem to be the most common along with, LG panels coupled with SolarEdge inverters, SolarEdge is an extremely high quality, long lasting solar solution. Hi Mark, Thank you for the reply. Contrary to what SolarEdge specifically told me, the main problem we have with optimisers is not infant mortality. Your installer gets their own application - the SolarEdge Monitoring Platform - which provides remote monitoring and maintenance down to the level of each individual solar panel. However question remains : If Solar Edge as bad as you wrote why Solar Edge has biggest markert share in USA? Website Design and Development by Elliot Moss, Home Automation using the wireless ZigBee controllers. My second theory relates to monitoring. The datasheet, and the extended training not includes this information, what in my oppinion is highly important. Regards, Margot. Please help. Mid-March the two optimizers were replaced, the necessary adaptations were made in the software of the inverter, and the system started again. Great article. My company, Run on Sun, has been installing Enphase exclusively since 2009. You can still tell if there is a significant issue with a string system. This is the expensive part as distances can be long. It is also likely that new cable will need to be installed to the inverter. I installed everything myself and could not be bothered to get on the roof to replace the last ones that failed for some time. Per our Solar company, who has been in business 10 years, they have not seen a big difference between Solar Edge and other inverters in terms of reliability. I am in the UK and live in a location shaded by trees. P300 optimizers. Very informative! I've heard SolarEdge won't talk to the end customer, which is difficult if the sales company has gone bust. Of the 98 inverters, we have only had one with hardware failure. Our electrical system was designed before a huge increase in DC-AC switches and step-down converters (also inside of most LED or CFL light bulbs), and every time voltage is stepped-down it generates high-frequency transients, which cause problems (over time). They said, that the P300 and P370 optimizers cannot bypass panels, that means, if there is heavy shade, than P300 and P370 optimizers suffer a huge drop, due to the inverter fixed voltage. So july I got inverter Aug stopped working sept new inverter NOV 28 stopped working Dec 3 I noticed and here we go again. If I were you I would consider asking your installer to upgrade you to Fronius with more panels (should be the same price). My friend has a similar setup with same equipment by same installer but nearing 6 years, and his inverter also died, though this will be his 2nd replacement. I'm a residential Solar Edge user and I have 33 Suniva 280W panels on the roof, two streams (18+15). You would probably have to lift every panel, change a lot of wiring and replace the inverter. Regarding the Production Loss and Blocking example. I have a 21 panel system on my roof with a Solar Edge SE 4000 inverter. Hi Darrell, Sorry for the late reply, the COVID crisis has my focus on the blog. A little bit of blocking isn't the worst thing in the world. 3 Bypass diodes are built into all standard panels. Please let me know your suggestion for a good inverter because depending on the installer, I have been recommended Fronius, Sungrow or SolarEdge. Over the past two years, by neighbor and I had Sun Bug Solar install large dual trackers and both of us have experienced frequent monitoring alerts and inverter failures. Then we can install a maximum 5kW of Enphase micro inverters, and oversized panels to a total of 6.6kW if we choose the right panel. i have an annoying roof footprint, that mean s the 18 could be spread across 3 different facings and potentially different orientations. Please see our Privacy Policy at the bottom of the page. That's very interesting, and concerning. But it can't handle even simple problems because of the fixed string voltage. Now, going back to solar panel tilt and direction, you are bound to wonder about so many things: Is there a way to get more energy from the exact same size of a solar panel system? My system will be on 2 different sides of roof ( south east and south west). The standard panels we install in 2019 are 330W, 350W and 360W panels. Check out the MC Electrical Electrical YouTube channel for a recent explanation of why batteries are almost always not worth it. Hi Tin, SolarEdge MNicros only work with SolarEdge inverters. They plan to install 68 Mission Solar 365W modules (MSE Perc 72) with 68 Solar Edge P400 Power Optimizers. Pretty bad optimizer failure rate that have all occurred in the last 2-3 months. "However, if the four northern panels were not blocked by the 60 volts limit, they could have produced the same power as the other group of 10 panels. They have an office in Victoria who can help you with any issues that you might be facing. Hi Harry, that sounds right. They obviously have not spent any money on R&D on this part of their business to see what works or doesn't. But they have since told me that didnt tell me that. Quite misleading. Do you have plans to move in the future? Due to possible warranty claims in the future maybe it isn't wise choosing this optimizer, is it? Theres never been any warnings for anything that went wrong with the system. Mark, I just wanted to thank you for such a data driven review. The problem is that panels are getting bigger and bigger. If your voltage gets really high (eg 265v) and SE void your warranty (although I don't think they can), you should get the grid/utility to pay for replacing the inverter. Is it best to just get fronius? Disclaimer: I am Israeli American. Seems to back up what is said. It was sufficient to make it clear that I wont be using SolarEdge. Is it an extra cost for the top level monitoring software package. Gustav has a Bachelor of Engineering and is currently practicing as a senior-level electrical engineer specializing in research. Your privacy is important to us. They sent me the Optimiser on 22nd January but apparently they are unable to agree labour and scaffolding costs with the company they have chosen to fit it. I was never contacted or alerted by my supplier or SolarEdge. my main reasoning to look at solar edge is that we will have some panels partially shaded on one side of the house. What happens to the unimportant and unstrategic sites? Therefore, multiplying $2.7 per watt to our 5kW system will get us $13,500. An enlightening read. If so, then they are really not saying anything since they already allow up to 25 per string. (Hopefully !5k of that 22K was for a re-roof!). These optimisers are warranted to last 25 years. Interestingly there is no significant difference between panels within a string according to orientation, just between strings. i was told by an installer down here that you didn't use the correct isolators for the panels you were installing and you were sued by solaredge? Unlike your. It's a stupid idea in that heat. I'm designing a PV set for my East (10x300Wp) and West roof (17x300Wp). I am a customer located in Frankston, Victoria, Australia. Second inverter failed after 4 years. Now, just how much more efficient are sun-tracking solar panels compared to its stiff, rigid cousin? Must be very happy with installer experience . FYI- my system has 2 arrays - one with 30 panels rated at 310w ea. If you get some clearance stock 275W panels for a bargain, you could have 2 strings of 12. I would also suggest if MPV tediously looked at every panel's production (not just alerts), they would find failed optimisers. I work for one of the largest PV companies in Sweden since 8 years. We see an optimizer failure rate of about 2%. I knew the monitoring App was not working since May 2020 but put this down to the fact that I had changed my Wi-Fi modem and thought that it was just a communication error (wrong!). I imagine that they will be fairly rare but would like to be proved wrong. I bought a 8.19 Kw system in late 2015. You want to be seeing a huge ROI over a lifetime period. Hi Scott. Getting the exact cost of solar trackers is very difficult because the installation process varies highly for each case. This says it for itself about the quality of this product. We generally oversize to 33 per cent. All very confusing. In terms of installation as well, it makes the compatibility and flexibility of your system much easier to design having a fully comprehensive solarEdge system. Should I be concerned about this system? String 1 has 3 N(orth facing) + 8 W, string 2 has 4 E + 5 W. Production per panel over 14 months from string 1 ranged from 260 to 311 kWh. I will wait for his promise to set up a meeting with regional Arizona and California managers as well as SVS to discuss options. Mark, Great write up in general. I asked them to replace it with their energy hub, hoping this product is more stable, but haven't heard from them. About film capacitors vs electrolytic capacitors, the industry, i mean, the whole industry working with dc-dc converters agree that film capacitors are the best choice for these kind of applications including high temperature applications. Look at a different DC-coupled battery solution like the Fronius Gen 24 (I have a blog coming out next week) and add Tigo. I can hear the inverter clicking like a relay is failing. Hi Peter, thanks. And so many companies use them. Would i recommend Tigo optimisers or Enphase? My SE5000 worked for 3 weeks then died. I have been lied to over and over. As the demand for EV increases and the high return on investment electric cars offer you can stay one step ahead by easily adding a SolarEdge EV charger to your home. The problem I face is that I am blind and monitoring would be a challenge for me. Can I optimize solar panel tilt and direction? However 2 weeks ago the invertor was replaced ( we only found out after the fact) seemed to work for a while and now back to switching off, and restarting. I don't recommend SolarEdge. Sun Tracking Solar Panel (All you need to know), Savings from each component of the sun tracking solar panel system, Total payback period from the sun tracking solar system. My installer is waiting for solar edge to confirm that it is the optimiser that has failed. Who is your installer? It's only a couple of hours away. I think the inverter is failing. My gripe? Control your smart home devices and manage SolarEdge EV charging remotely For your information quality control at the assembly level from the same line has variations, and when the engineering is watered down to lower costs issues arise and compounds the problems. No, we don't have Rapid Shutdown requirements - and it seems that rule won't come into Australia either. If you are on Facebook, you could post the question on a group called "crap solar". I consulted leading inverter manufacturers. I have not seen too many systems that last longer than 7 years without failures. Whats your impression of this inverter in a 41X300W system? , Inc. is a major manufacturer and provider of solar inverters, power optimiser, and solar panels. Hi, In the Netherlands, we got a HDWave inverter and the power optimizers from Solar Edge, together with 12 panels. The sooner the day comes that people have one brand to get their head around and all the various components talk to each other seamlessly, the better. I am looking for a communication board to buy. Anyone who installs must be CEC accredited. To add salt to the wound, when we initially started installing the New NO LCD HD waves, there ware several several cases requiring us to return to the sites 2 or3 times to get the inverter operational. All we need to do is regularly check the alerts of the 2000+ system we would have installed, and repair the failures that are likely to happen. I'm build I ng 7 x 5MW solar farms in regional QLD. They have created a unique product in the market by giving you an all-in-one style system with full visibility. But for now, lets look at the positive and check out the HD Wave Inverter. I was told that in 25 yrs, I will still get 91% performance.. do you agree? Hi Tom, In Australia, we can install panels to a maximum of 33 per cent over the nominal output of the inverter. LOL. Each solar module (also called a solar panel) on your roof is connected to a SolarEdge Power Optimizer which transforms it into a smart module. I have an EE background and have started researching this my self. Im planning to get a system but undecided on which inverter to get. When I realised there was a problem with the system I rebooted it and it started working again. Even before I realised all the issues with SolarEdge, I advised Fronius over SolarEdge if there was no shade. The ring back works OK. It was also worth reading several of your other reviews to realize the unique quality of the information with the many degrees of details and nuancing you provide. I have just been advised that this is the last time they will replace it and if It fails against will need to do a home insurance claim. I asked the installer for the ability to monitor production and consumption, so he installed two solaredge consumption meters. Ive read about poly, mono, PERC, split cells, various wattages, sizes, even colours. Based on your comments, should I be looking into replacements and what? Right away Ive been getting RCD errors and panel shutdowns. My point is that SolarEdge is spruiked as a shade solution and a complicated roof solution. Keen to see your comments Peter. For example, if youre looking for a fast ROI, budget system because you might move later on in the future there wouldnt be any point in investing in this system. So a single instance of optimiser failure, or pannel shading shouldn't take the whole system down. I am adding three more panels and will connect them to the sting that cuts out and see if this way i can have two stings working and maintaining a high enough voltage. An Optimiser failed in October last year and despite numerous phone calls I'm still waiting for it to be fixed. But if you go ahead with it, make sure you get access to full monitoring and have a look every now and then at the individual panel production. I am a SW/embedded HW engineer and this failure rate and that reported by others has me very worried now. Chris - Nowra NSW 2541. The other point was that we might not know if it has failed. Would you recommend optimizers versus micro inverters given all these problems. There is a lot of knowledge in that group. Hi, thanks for your interesting article. This is what I would consider to be a fully sustainable, future proof solar solution. In total, the sun tracking solar panel system will cost you$18,200. Climatebiz experts design, research, fact-check & edit all work meticulously. The reason choosing it is: it has battery and second AC power source input backup in case main power grid fails. Hi Jack. What have SolarEdge said about the issue? When picking a motorized solar tracker, you have two options on the market: single and dual-axis solar trackers. Its also worth mentioning that SolarEdge has recently made in onto S&P 500 index which places them up their with some of the worlds biggest companies like Apple, Microsoft and Facebook. This is a great post, well thought out, researched, and written. Installation error (this is what he claims)? VPP's are still not financially viable. I'm sure you get many offers to become a puppet! But why do some installers claim very few failures while SolarEdge themselves admit there has been an unreasonably high failure rate. I hope you will have an opportunity to be heard and present your case in court. Their monitoring platform is awful and slow. 1. I'd ask him to use p505 optimisers (pay the extra $15 per optimiser or so) and have a string of 12 minimum and production should be fine. You also dont have access to EV charging with the HD Wave. The installer should have given you an estimated average monthly production (kWh), and they should be fairly accurate with that estimate (within 10 per cent annualised easily). I have just exchanged the first Optimizer. Very disappointing. I think some of your criticisns are a bit unfair though. Did you go ahead with SolarEdge? (Id suggest a good example of a general application may be one orientation per string with minimal shade.). Obviously no one has monitored since its install and I am out of pocket hundreds of dollars as a result. Actually it can measure up to 100C, but the sensor is not made to withstand temperatures above 70C long term. BTW, no battery discharge level visible from SE app, website only. Thanks, for your helpful post. I agree that batteries are not worth it at this stage, but Essential Energy are about to sell them at a 30-40% subsidy so it makes it worth some consideration. Then without consultation battery discharge went from once per day ( peak 5p-8p) to twice per day to include morning before panels start producing. I disconnected the other string and took out each optimizer in the bad string one by one but never saw any yield. This is important information!! So really nothing special or dangerous in what they are allowing. And this happens every 3 to 5 days, so at this point I'm extyremely pissed with Solar Edge. Your reported failure rate in the field is exceptionally high and it astounded me when today it is possible to guarantee few ppm failures for both the semiconductors and the passive components. We have zero shade problems. Suppose your solar panels produce more electricity in the afternoon thanks to the sun trackers you installed (see figure below on Step 8). But I think you missed the point of the waiver SE gave you. Having seen yr article I ran a +-2hr test on my system today I pushed it to its max and maintained a draw of no less than 2.5kW from the grid above the PV System output this was at peak sun position the sky was clear and cloudless during the 2 hr test (I have a weather station that I monitored the Solar radiation & UV curves from to ensure that I was measuring at the daily peak, and a Efergy meter to monitor grid draw to ensure that I was well above the max that my system is capable of). Give us a call at 520-740-0736, or fill out this short form, and one of our technicians will be in touch with you shortly. Next, lets break down a Sun Tracking Solar Panel System with the 7,883 kWh we got from our previous step and see how much came from the 3.5kW system and the sun tracker. I believe it is very flexible system except not best in built quality. So, two problems: bad equipment and bad monitoring. Lets figure out if sun tracking solar panels are right for you. Ill be giving SE a wide berth but any advice you can offer given my shading issues would be appreciated. You might need to open up a few products to show assembly differences and quality of components. Adopt D/A Temperature Compensated Auto Frequency Control Technology. Of course a main reason people like the optimizers in the US is to meet the rapid shutdown requirement, which they keep making worse in order to screw solar. On the three inverters installed none are working correctly. Learn how homeowners are successfully lowering their electricity bills and contributing to a cleaner planet with SolarEdge smart energy systems. Thanks for your great article! For 20 years I have been examining the possibility of having a PV system and have been learning about solar PV designs from first principles. The point is you need to be careful about blocking both with current and voltage, and as panels get higher in wattage, the problem is more pronounced. Hi Mark - greetings from sunny Southern California. Hi Ruth. When you login first time using a Social Login button, we collect your account public profile information shared by Social Login provider, based on your privacy settings. thx again for posting this blog and i hope the solaredge legal team get off your back :) regards ronnie. The same reading is evident at the inverter. Oh, my SE inverter had to be replaced during the first week after installation.
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